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Broken Rules: Your responses

4/1/2014

Yesterday's blog about Broken Rules has caused a disturbance in the warp, here are your views recorded by Rembrancer Walker:

Christian Moore:

The Heldrake was fine, when first released, as you could just avoid the template by getting out of its ark of fire. Then they said it was a turret weapon that torrents from its base, and it become horrible. Rescind that FAQ and people wouldn't bat an eyelash at it really, and know one would be taking three of them in one list.

The Wave serpent issue can be addressed one of two ways I think. Either make the Shield a one use weapon, so once you decided to shoot it, that's your shield gone for the game. Or (and I prefer this option) remove it as a Dedicated Transport, and make it a purchasable transport, although I don't know the Eldar codex well enough to say which slot it would best fit in, Fast Attack?

Also the units aren't broken, until a player breaks them. I play against Heldrakes and Waveserpents quite often playing against Alasdhair, and they are obviously tough units, but he doesn't spam them into oblivion. Which makes the game more enjoyable for both parties.

Edd Quick:

uncompetitive

— adj
not able or willing to compete

Does the unit in question cause the opponent to be unable to compete?

It seems to come down to cost. Players should certainly have the choice to invest heavily in a powerful, survivable unit; they should lose out in another area of their army. However, if the price investment is low relative to what the unit can achieve then they don’t lose out. This might give them an edge over their opponent, but the difficulty is in measuring what a unit can do – depends how it is used, whether it is prioritised as a target, what the opponent has to deal with it etc etc. Ultimately, the units listed above can all potentially, (I think) be taken out in one turn by a cheaper unit of some kind. Riptide – any instant death weapons in CC, Helldrake – anything that fires at its arse, the Eldar vehicle: A unit of termagaunts with adrenal glands… So where do you price them? I don’t think they are uncompetitive; they just make the competition harder. At the end of the day, 40K is not representing a pretty little game on a pitch with spectators, drawn out lines, off-sides and fouls – it’s representing f##king war!!! You should be scared of these machines!

Is the Heldrake a victim of its own success?

Alasdhair MhicMhaolain:
I have two Heldrakes, but I never field them. It dramatically reduces the amount of fun my opponent will have, and that's not really something that I want to do. I think a lot of people tend to forget that it's more fun to have an exciting game than one you're guaranteed to win.

Also, it's almost like Games Workshop writes rules for people who want to have exciting games rather than people who want to win :P Yes, you can bring three heldrakes, or spam Wave Serpents, or bring tau just for the riptide (or Skyray, no names mentioned ;) ), or you can bring a list of things that you think are fun or cool and play with them. I know who I would rather play.

Mik Calow:
Totally agree Alasdhair, a "game" is meant to be enjoyed by all its players, not the cost of the enjoyment of some of its players.

Simon Rooke:
Nice blog - Everything seems a bit tough at the moment. This January is the 5 year anniversary of my codex, so at the moment i'm happy with a competitive game. If someone fielded the above mentioned filth, I usually have to think of an Orkish tactic (Usually throw the warboss against it -or- roll 100+ dice a turn and hope!)

Dan Porter:
Broken can be a lazy shorthand for "I can't think of a way to beat you with my favourite list" as well as being something objective. I also think a number of games companies deliberately create a model/rules arms race to drive sales. Or maybe I'm just a cynical old git.

Sebastion Rubio:
Hell turkey broken? Seeing how all chaos players field them, the guy who wrote this is F high. Wave serpents are still usable, not that popular because of other choices, but still used when the point limit is increased and you don't use allies, they start appearing, how I still see them.

Brad Moshenko:
I like a lot of the ideas that they have introduced with and since 6th but I think they are going to have to balance everything due to them.

Kenneth More Taylor:
Lol. The helldrake gets first nod as broken? What a joke. Kenneth more Taylor

Daniel Owen:
It's games workshop. Broken rules are their foundation.

Allan Begolo Wyatt:
Broken rules is for people who would rather complain than problem solve. :)

Angus Tyrrel:
One powerful rule/weapon does not a broken unit make. The heldrake is unfairly called broken in my opinion. It is a must-have in an otherwise sub-par codex. If you don't run a BaleDrake you are setting yourself up for a uphill battle. The same cannot be said for armies like Necrons, Eldar and Tau where they have access to a number of powerful units that are not auto-includes because another unit elsewhere can fill the "power void".

Ryan Duddridge:
Its not necessarily the individual unit entries that are broken. sure, a heldrake is hard to play against, and a riptide can ruin your day. it only becomes "broken" when people spam them - which is unfluffy unless you can come up with a genuine bit of background to your army as to why they rely so heavily on these pieces of kit.

Travis James Rey:
I do fine without my Drake, have done so for over a year. Long live flexible ideas! When I play against Drakes though, it's only tough if you don't plan your game preparing for it (tactics-wise).

Aaron Melnychuk-Smith:
Those are situational at best. The units listed in the above post always work and work well against everything.

Andrew Hilton-Wigg:
Broken... or abuseable?

1 Comment

Broken Rules?

3/1/2014

1 Comment

"That unit is broken!"

Before I begin something amusing or should I say broken?:

Crikey better get my model repair kit out I hear you say? Well that's what I would have thought anyway, but little did I realise the term had an altogether different meaning, which I discovered while reading a friends blog.

So gather round man (that's another term of endearment I have noticed!). Today we dissect the 40K term - Broken. What does it really mean for us wargamers and how do we draw the line? To understand the term I needed to ask a further question:

What makes something "broken"? It's a term armchair generals on the internet like to throw around to describe certain units.

Helldrake? Broken.
Wave Serpents? Kinda Broken.
The Forge World XV107 R'Varna Riptide suit? Extra broken.

What is it that makes something broken? Where is the line that you cross that makes something go from being good to being broken? Is it the points cost, the strength of their rules or just a combination of them all?

Consider the individual examples I've named above:

The Helldrake

It goes by many other names of course. The Helldrake. Hellturkey. That F**king Dragon. Widely regarded as the scariest of all fliers what earns it the reputation it has garnered in the 12 months since Chaos Space Marines launched. At 170 points it is one of the most expensive fliers in the standard codices at this point. Armour wise he's nearly the toughest a flier can be, let down only by rear armour of 10. His "hook" comes from his armament. The ability to vector strike anything, causing high strength, AP3 wounds that ignore cover on top of THAT weapon makes him a powerful tool

The interesting thing is that a Drake with the Autocannon is identical in every regard except for weaponry. And yet people think that taking one is a wasted opportunity and a mistake.

So its pretty clear what makes him dangerous is that flamer weapon.

Now would he still be considered "broken" if his flamer was AP4? Or if it wasn't torrent? Or if he cost 50 points more?

What he does in a chaos army isn't replaceable by anything else in the codex really. CSM have very limited access to flamer weapons compared to some armies, and no other fliers

The Wave Serpent

Taking the crown of the best transport in the game right now (only just dislodging those damn Nightscythes though), the Wave Serpent brings it all to the table. Incredible high strength firepower on a pretty durable frame that is fast enough to cross the table in a single turn. For this they do cost a fair chunk of points, at nearly 100 points more than the common garden variety Rhino.

It is the only dedicated transport available to an Eldar army, so its not something that can be taken out or left behind. Footdar is still a valid build but lots of people just want some speed and flexibility that a foot based force doesn't offer.

So what makes it broken?

That damn Serpent Field. Downgrading penetrating fire to glances is potent, but not overpowered in my opinion, particularly with only 3 hull points. Its the ability to shoot it as a weapon isn't it? 60" of cover ignoring autocannon with up to 5 extra shots. That is incredible.

Would it be "broken" if it was shorter range? Or a set number (say 3) shots? Or didn't ignore cover? Could you increase the points cost, but would anyone buy a AV12 transport if it cost the same as a Land Raider?

XV 107 R'Varna

Wow. All my defending FW as having "balanced" rules these days suddenly goes out the window. I hope the real rules are toned down a bit from these experimental rules.

What isn't broken about this guy? Take a garden variety Riptide, something usually considered to be a little bit too good, increase its invulnerable save by one without needing to Nova Charge, give it a higher toughness and a weapon that will absolutely wreck nearly anything you point it at....all for less than a Land Raider

This unit is easily broken in my eyes. Requiring an average of 30 Lascannon shots to drop him (assuming you buy FNP and never Nova Charge the shield) or 54 Plasma shots, capable of dropping a Wraithknight in a single round of shooting on average dice and is more potent against other big threats than smaller infantry....then remember hes AP2 in combat, and can be S10 just to ID most units.

Where would this guy not be considered "broken"? 400 points? Same stat line as a Riptide, not made harder?

So what have I learned?

So frequently, it comes down to the weapon. But these weapons alone, although good frequently appear elsewhere...a Drake flamer can be found on a Land Raider. Or there exist weapons out there that are better at murdering folks. Is a Wave Serpents shield weapon really better than the power of massed broadside firepower, which can achieve the same thing? Would you rather have your character shot by the Helldrakes template, or a bog standard melta gun?

Is it the spam ability? Helldrakes are spammable, wave serpents are FoC slotless being dedicated so you can have a lot of them. R'Varnas are just straight up better than everything in a the competing slot and you can easily fit three into an army.

So it must be a combination of things, like the points cost you pay for them, the platforms durability and its other abilities. But then there's units out there that are potent, durable and under costed, but are not considered broken.

It must be added that units are only broken when a player breaks them as Christian a member of Leicester All Scars explains:

"The units aren't broken, until a player breaks them. I play against Heldrakes and Waveserpents quite often playing against Alasdhair and they are obviously tough units, but he doesn't spam them into oblivion. Which makes the game more enjoyable for both parties."

1 Comment

Keep Calm and Roll Dice

1/1/2014

0 Comments

One of the delights of running a club are the messages you receive about rules so today I will be discussing game balance.

Many years ago, perhaps even before some of us were playing 40K, there was the emergence of Nidzilla. One of the first no fun, easy button armies of its day. Time passed and Nidzilla gave way to Wave Serpent Spam (the original) followed by Nob Bikers, Venom spam, Razor spam, Wolf Pod Spam, Paladin Death Stars, The Breakfast Brigade, and many others along the way. The new non-interactive boogie man on the block is the 2+ save toting combo star unit. Chicken little has certainly had many opportunities to say those magical words in the past and is taking a deep breath even as I write this. But this too shall pass.

The morale of the above story is that GW is a crazy train, and many of us have been down this road many times before. GW makes some crazy unit(s), the meta is unbalanced and then something else is released. People learn to adapt and the meta moves on.

The symptom is perceived unbalanced units. The disease is some players believe competitive list building is about making the game as non interactive as possible or win by default condition. Take a second look at the list of armies presented above, most if not all of the were based on the premise that I have a hammer you can’t stop and my plan is to beat you with it until you concede. But times change, and more importantly the game does too.

I have spent the better part of the last decade contributing to rules councils and a guiding principle has always been to play the game as close to the rules as possible. There have been years worth of spirited debate on the subject. Though nothing quite stirred the hornets nest of the vocal minority like a perceived “rules change”. The accusations than surfaced of they are making their own version of 40K not playing the real version. While I never took such accusations personally, I always wished people could hear those spirited debates between what amounted to decades of 40K experience having legitimate disagreements about how to rule in sometimes impossible situations.

The one constant from GW is this, they have always advertised themselves as a MODEL company that happens to make games for their models. Look at how they present themselves to the world, “We have a simple strategy at Games Workshop. We make the best fantasy miniatures in the world and sell them globally at a profit and we intend to do this forever” (http://investor.games-workshop.com/our-business-model/). Everything GW does is designed to sell models. This includes churning the meta of the game to induce players to update their collections. So keep calm, right around the corner is the next change that will move the meta(I’m looking at you Escalation). Perhaps Vitamin D is the cure for the common 2+ save.

0 Comments

One rule to rule them all!

28/12/2013

0 Comments

Anyone with an internet connection and a pair of functioning eyes is aware of the rapid changes 40K is going through at this point in time: Formations? Super Heavies? Forge World? Fortifications? Digital Rules with unannounced updates? Supplements? Codices? FAQs?

"Holy Confusion, Batman! Writing Rule Packs has never been so hard!"

We are truly in uncharted waters.

I have been in spirited, and very interesting discussions with other club leaders about what to make of all of this interesting, exciting, crazy new information we are getting bombarded with and GW's (apparent) complete disregard for balance (or even spell checking...or you know, making sure the Inquisition release even had the right title!).

So what to make of it all? I, obviously, enjoy organising 40K. It is what I enjoy most about the game, honestly! The social aspect of going to events and gaming with, and playing with other hobby enthusiasts is just the best.

Previously we have been able to adjust to rules changing lists mid tournament but now things are coming so rapid fire, and in so many different formats and media types, and with updates on the down low that keeping up with it all has become incredibly difficult. And, everything is being billed as good to go for any game of 40K (although what we choose to use is always entirely up to us).

So what to do? I love organized play, as do many, many thousands of gamers. However, presenting a cogent, tested format for tournaments, casual play, etc. in the face of this barrage of new material is an interesting quandary.

As the game becomes increasingly more complex with rules interacting with one another in nearly infinite ways, the potential for game breaking combos increases exponentially.

But what is game breaking? Even that is hard to define as two of the most commonly derided lists I hear about are the Seerstar and Screamster (both of which revolve around the notorious 2+ reroll save). Most gamers I would bet would say these are cheesy, or broken. However you talk to top level others and they will tell you they aren't that hard to deal with, some may even say they think they are bad!

Are they both right? Both wrong? It all depends on perspective. For the player with the knowledge of how to deal with something, that thing may be no big deal. For the player that doesn't, it kills the fun of the game.

Where does that leave us? Well, as I see it, we have a few options if we want to continue to have fun gaming together as friends, rivals and fellow enthusiasts.

Let it ride and see where GW takes us! The game has had broken, crazy stuff before and we have all survived. Perhaps this is just another storm to weather? Perhaps it will, at some point, all make sense.
Look at running two types of events at each event in respect to tournaments. A "Gladiator" style event with a higher points limit, no restrictions on any official material, less games and a no-holds barred style format along with a more traditional tournament format with restrictions on supplements to create a more predictable, stable tournament environment with less points, more rounds.
Introducing a "Ban List" style concept such as we see in games like Magic. This could take many forms and is essentially a form of targeted comp with the intent to prevent the most abusive units (at least as perceived by those determining the ban list) to hopefully prevent "unfun" combos. This would be a constantly evolving list, adjusted with each new release. As much as I dislike comp due to it's subjectivity, a very focused list of no go units/items/etc. is something to consider.
Attempt to "fix" universally abused rules. Some proposals have been to eliminate allies, limit allies, restrict the type or number of allies. Another suggestion was to target specific rules that impact all armies, such as the proposed change of making any 2+ save with a reroll downgrade to a 3+ save of the same type with a reroll. The intent being to prevent any army from having a potentially "invincible" unit to, again, make the game more fun for more people.
Try to use missions, terrain, and deployment to encourage army diversity and to potentially penalize "abusive" lists.

What do you guys think?

Each idea has its merits and its flaws. Ultimately, those of us that labor at creating these events want them to be fun. We want them to grow and be something to look forward to every year! We want to evoke that excitement and fun that makes us all love the hobby of miniatures wargaming and our reactions to changes and proposals such as those above are geared in that direction.

0 Comments

Broken Rules: Your responses

Yesterday's blog about Broken Rules has caused a disturbance in the warp, here are your views recorded by Rembrancer Walker:

Broken Rules?

The Helldrake

The Wave Serpent

XV 107 R'Varna

So what have I learned?

Keep Calm and Roll Dice

One rule to rule them all!

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